About this episode
In this episode of Bullish on Bitcoin Show, Alexei sits down with Jacob Phillips, co-founder of Lombard and former investor at Polychain, to tackle the big question: is Bitcoin DeFi dead or alive? Jacob brings a rare DeFi-native perspective on Bitcoin, having entered the space chasing the multi-trillion-dollar opportunity of idle BTC capital rather than as a lifelong Bitcoiner.
From the rise and fall of the Bitcoin staking boom, to why "productive Bitcoin" was already a reality off-chain long before DeFi existed, to the hard truths about custody, risk, and yield — this conversation is a candid post-mortem and forward-looking roadmap for where Bitcoin DeFi goes from here, including a first look at the upcoming LBTC Phase 2.
In this episode we discuss:
- Jacob's journey from Polychain investor to founding Lombard
- Why Bitcoin DeFi is uniquely hard to "speed run" compared to other ecosystems
- Is productive Bitcoin actually a new idea? The off-chain history of BTC as collateral
- Why the "zero risk, high yield" pitch to Bitcoiners was always a myth
- The Merlin TVL controversy and the early days of Bitcoin L2 incentive games
- How the Bitcoin staking boom (Babylon, EigenLayer-style incentives) bootstrapped on-chain capital
- LBTC's rise from zero to $2.5B and the yield collapse that followed
- The upcoming LBTC Phase 2: rebuilding sustainable, fundamental BTC yield
- Bitcoin as collateral: the clearest product-market fit in Bitcoin DeFi today
- Why Aave, Morpho, and lending protocols remain the safest venues for on-chain capital
- On-chain finance vs. DeFi: tokenization, RWAs, and what makes a "better product"
- Solving the custody problem: why institutions need interoperable, not either/or, custody
- Retail vs. institutional Bitcoin demand — and why the two are deeply symbiotic
- BOB Gateway, Bitcoin Smart Accounts, and the next wave of capital onboarding
- Market sentiment, the quantum threat debate, and why fundamentals are now outpacing price
